You may have a smart meter from the first generation (SMETS1). Taoglas antennas ensure high quality and seamless time-to-market execution for IoT products, Signal's Power Over Ethernet surface mount transformer series for use in a variety of applications. The dial is stuck The dial needs to cleaned and un-stuck. For an ohmmeter, touch the meter leads together. Followed the instructions, used UHU glue instead of a glue gun, now the display is perfect - many thanks! You must make sure that it is plugged into a power strip or into an electrical outlet. However, every electronic parts can be disassemble. I don't see any trace of a "printed on" fuse unless it actually blew away the corner of the PCB. There are a few AA batteries for running the electronics, and everything except the resitance scales work fine. The utility can then check whether the power is restored to your home or business, and close trouble orders before they leave. Reset the switches if they have tripped. 5 years ago So, never, ever measure AC current with a multimeter that doesnt support AC current measurement otherwise you will damage your meter. The top item is a fuse. Remember to always follow proper safety procedures and never use a damaged or malfunctioning multimeter. It is pretty common and should not be difficult to repair. See also: Is asking on how to fix a faulty circuit on topic? The reading should be close to zero. I have a brand new multimeter, but any time I set it to resistance mode (any setting) according to the user manual, it shows 1 in the leftmost digit, and the decimal point will move around based on which setting I chose (but the remaining digits will never set to 0. The In-Home Display must be kept within 2 meters of the energy smart meter in order to function. however i ignored it for sometime. Next, you can try resetting the multimeter by removing the battery and replacing it after a few minutes. 18 17 By Easy and work project Follow More by the author: About: I love diy, electronic, fix something broken. No long-term contract. If you think it is broken, throw it out. Shorted Cap In Scalar Board Caused No Display In SONY LED TV KLV-29P423D, Fixing A Defect But Brand New UNI-T Tweezer Tester, Completed The MicroElectronics Repair Level 4 Course, Loose Contact In Power ON Button Caused Dead Condition In Mr Light Phantom 32. Looking to give simulation learning a try? It is not worth repairing. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. In this blog post, we will discuss some common problems that can occur with multimeters and provide solutions for each one. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. When the first touchscreen DMM's are available and become common good, the risk of them to break in these instances is probably much greater. Conquerall Electrical Ltd will not be held liable for any accidental damage, negligent or injury resulting from equipment, information, electrical, tools, fire, recommended products or any items contained on this site. Bring the In-Home Display to the location of the electricity meter. Some time problems are not that much difficult. If the hour meter does not display while the generator is running, we recommend you take the unit to your nearest Cat Home & Outdoor Power Authorized Sales & Service Center for repair. The lcd display will degrade slowly and finally leave black spot (or big one) on lcd display. Short story (possibly by Hal Clement) about an alien ship stuck on Earth. There could be several potential causes for a multimeter not working properly, including damaged wires or connectors, a faulty power source, or simply dead batteries. Hey, Im Steven Jones, the founder, and writer of this site. Multimeter exploded during ACV measurment - What did I do wrong? If this does not work, try using different batteries or a different power source for the multimeter. When your electric meter has a blank screen, you should first check whether the meter is faulty or has lost power. Press and hold the OK button when youre near the meter. Check The Batteries: Replace any weak or dead batteries in the multimeter; Test the replaced batteries with another device to make sure they are working properly; Inspect The Multimeter for Physical Damage: Look for any visible damage such as cracks, loose wires, or broken parts; Other potential reasons for the malfunction could include damaged probes or loose connections. When you do that, you should hear a continuous beep sound. Make sure you follow all of your companys safety precautions, rules, and procedures while troubleshooting. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. It can measure voltage perfectly. Chances are that if you put voltage on a high current range the traces going to the shunt would be blown off rather than the shunt damaged. @PhilFrost I would suspect that except it measures voltage, just not resistance. Solving issues with the Scottish power smart meter is pretty easy. It is not recommended to try to fix a non-working multimeter yourself unless you have experience and knowledge in repairing electrical equipment. If you are unsure of the cause of the display issue, contact your electric suppliers Support Team. Great. The digital multimeter is the essential electrical measurement tool. Turn it off completely by pushing and pressing the power switch for ten seconds to reset it. If there were no issues with the switches, hire an electrician to inspect the wiring. Check that the screen is close enough to your meter: IHDs need to be within a few metres of your electricity meter to connect properly, and thick walls can disrupt the connection too. Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for electronics and electrical engineering professionals, students, and enthusiasts. Faster algorithm for max(ctz(x), ctz(y))? Some outages are nested that is, the utility fixes one break near the substation but fails to detect a second break. Next, check all connections and make sure they are secure and properly connected. document.getElementById('af-form-413914580').parentElement.removeAttribute('target'); I try then to measure voltage from an electrical plug or battery, but the numbers stay at 0. Faulty Fuses The fuses of many electronic instruments can be tested by setting the multimeter to CONT (continuity). Here are some dos and don'ts for using a meter. The error may also occur if you have outstanding arrears that are greater than the amount tendered. Even with proper care, your multimeter can malfunction due to normal wear and tear or unexpected accidents. If all else fails, try using a different multimeter to test the wire. Analog vs. Digital Multimeter: Whats the Difference? if (navigator.userAgent.indexOf('FBIOS') !== -1 || navigator.userAgent.indexOf('Twitter for iPhone') !== -1) { If you cannot find a way to fix this problem, contact your supplier and request a replacement meter. If this still doesnt resolve the issue, you can try to reset the smart meter. How to Test if Multimeter is Working & Tips to Use it Properly, WISE-750-02A1E Intelligent Vibration Sensing Gateway, Power over Ethernet (PoE) SMD Transformers SPoE Series. Another potential issue could be faulty fuses. If you would like to see more on the products we recommend. See Ball Bearings Replacement Guide. To check if your multimeter is calibrated, you can use a known standard such as a battery or an AC adapter. if (document.compatMode && document.compatMode == 'BackCompat') { Go to this following web page for your owners manual. Would sending audio fragments over a phone call be considered a form of cryptology? 877-978-7246, If you would like to register with TPCTrainingclick here or contact us on 877-978-7246. If it appears to be blown, you can replace it with one of the same ratings. The multimeter turned itself off. Connect the red lead to the multimeters highest resistance setting and touch the black lead to the common terminal. A skillful work! First, check the batteries and ensure they have enough power or are not outdated. If you think it is broken, throw it out. Turn digital multimeter dial to resistance, or ohms, which often shares a spot on the dial with one or more other test/measurement modes (continuity, capacitance or diode; see illustration below). A used Fluke is certainly a good choice but there are other brands such as HP. This is usually solved by pressing the A or B buttons on the meter. This is also called a VOM or volt-ohm-milliammeter. You have now switched suppliers. Hence the 'multi'-'meter' name. This tutorial will show you how you can test if your multimeter is working, and if it is working, I will also give you a few tips on how to use this device. First, try changing the batteries to see if that solves the issue. Every multimeter will have a continuity mode which you can identify using a continuity symbol (something like a sound wave) over there. Your meter should read the correct voltage. With a Q tip, I cleaned the connection pad and the pins on board and hoped for the best. If none of these solutions fix the problem, it may be time to consider investing in a new multimeter. Its very good instruction. A digital multimeter much like an analog meter, it is able to read voltage, current, and resistance. 4 years ago A specific provider placed the meter. Thanks pal, Reply Why won't this bulb light when I put the multimeter in series? Remember to maintain safety while checking. In some cases, the display may not update after you unplug it. When power is cut, it can notify you via the RF mesh network to make sure that all the meters are still receiving power. hi, I have a similar digital multimeter, some time back, I removed the gost segments, now I do not have any display. It is best to send the device to a professional for repair or calibration. Surge Protector Making Clicking Noise: Reasons and Solutions! It is possible to get shocked while using a multimeter if it is not properly handled. This Multimeter features an easy-to-read 3.5 inch digital LED reading screen, two test leads (one red and one black), an "on"/"off" switch, and a dial which allows users to select a mode of testing. Required fields are marked *. This applies for smart watt hour meters. However, fixing or replacing the meter may be costly. Get started with our award-winning first solution here: Get Demo. The IHD is powered by batteries. Switch the button to the on position. In this case, you must first try to reset the faulty connection. And if you're measuring current more than in milliamps, if you're measuring it in amps, then you have to use your probe to another port as shown in the image. http://rental-shack.com/jm1ljs/webshop/manual/DT830_English_Manual.pdf, Site design / logo 2023 Stack Exchange Inc; user contributions licensed under CC BY-SA. Re: URGENT! How could I test the multimeter itself, or the cables (red and black) used with it, to try to discover what is wrong? It might be due to a mismatch. You may want to reset the IHD. One can be used to measure voltage and current in milliamp amps value. 6 years ago. If these steps do not work, it may be time to consult a professional or contact the manufacturer for further assistance. @*/false; Consult the manual for directions on replacing the fuse; Damaged or bent probes can affect measurements, so check that they are fully intact before troubleshooting further; If none of these solutions work, the problem could be a malfunction within the multimeter itself and it may need to be repaired or replaced by a professional technician; Make sure the multimeter is set up correctly for the task at hand; Ensure that all connections are secure and the probes are properly placed on the correct terminals; Double-check that the settings on the multimeter (such as voltage or resistance measurements) are accurate for your task; Replace any weak or dead batteries in the multimeter; Test the replaced batteries with another device to make sure they are working properly; Look for any visible damage such as cracks, loose wires, or broken parts; Contact the manufacturer or a professional if there is severe physical damage; Check that the circuit being measured is not connected to any power source; Try taking measurements in a different location or with different equipment; Make sure all connections are secure and there is no interference from outside sources; Disconnect all connections from the multimeter; Test the continuity and resistance with just the multimeter leads; If there is still no response, the problem may lie within the multimeter itself and it may need to be repaired or replaced; Contact the manufacturer for further assistance in troubleshooting and repairing the multimeter; Multimeters are not always able to accurately measure the current in a transformer; It is recommended to test the transformer with separate equipment or consult a professional for assistance; Read the manual for your specific model before using it for the first time; Make sure the multimeter is set to the correct measurement type (voltage, current, resistance, etc.) Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. (function() { As I took the battery and the four screws off I was able to see what lay beneath and hopefully it will get fixed. Before you perform a test, you need to know what the meter should read if the circuit is operating normally. There could be several reasons for this, including a faulty internal component or an improper connection. No, not all multimeters have a fuse. Pity I didn't take a before pic but there was a big black oval covering most of the screen. In such a situation, theres a very slim possibility the screen wont stay connected once youve recharged it. If the meter isnt replaced, you can claim for compensation from the energy supplier and arrange for a replacement. Glad to come across your website. Blinking during charging may indicate something else. Before you can contact a utility company to request repairs for a gas meter, you should know who is responsible for maintaining it. If your display is working. I could repair my multimeter YF-3503 Yufong. electronics.stackexchange.com/q/8158/2191, Building a safer community: Announcing our new Code of Conduct, Balancing a PhD program with a startup career (Ep. So once you've done that, you can be almost 90% sure that your meter is working fine, and you can go ahead with measuring your voltage, current, resistor, or whatever it is. Apart from this, it can also be used to debug faulty circuits, learn about other people's electronic designs, and even test a battery. http://www.caltek.com.hk/cm1200.htm It can measure voltage perfectly. Patch in an ordinary 1K resistor directly across it and see if the meter reads correctly. how to get back display 0.00. if you could be nice and friendly in answering from scratch. Parasuraman: yes I heard of that story..lol thanks for the nice encouraging comment. Then, press and hold the on/off or reset button for several seconds before releasing it. Is there a reason beyond protection from potential corruption to restrict a minister's ability to personally relieve and appoint civil servents? If you plan on doing work that will require a DMM, then get a better one. How do I reconnect my smart meter display? There are a few things you can do to troubleshoot the issue and get your multimeter up and running again. In some cases, simply replacing the batteries in your multimeter may solve the issue. Electric meter display troubleshooting should be the first step. The first step in resetting a prepaid electric meter is to check the wiring. on Step 1. u-blox's SARA-R5 series modules offer long-term device availability and provide lifetime support. Your energy supplier is responsible for maintaining your meter. Keeping the Meter Plugged In: The IHD is powered by batteries. If the wiring is okay, its possible that theres an issue with the item. This means there is proper connectivity between both the leads and your Multimeter is working. By clicking Accept all cookies, you agree Stack Exchange can store cookies on your device and disclose information in accordance with our Cookie Policy. I also know how to save energy and how to troubleshoot our electrical devices. Is there a reason beyond protection from potential corruption to restrict a minister's ability to personally relieve and appoint civil servents? I think sometime ago I tried to measure something wrongly, and maybe I broke it. This can usually be done by unscrewing the back cover and locating the fuse. This post contains affiliate links to products. on Introduction, I have metex 3500 multimeter it has black spot in lcd display I cannot open the lcd display. First, make sure that the multimeter is set to the correct fuse setting. Most smart meters have blank display panels. Dont be discouraged by following these steps and handling them with care, you can ensure that your multimeter remains in good working condition for as long as possible.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[300,250],'electronicshacks_com-leader-4','ezslot_14',112,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-electronicshacks_com-leader-4-0'); Before troubleshooting a non-working multimeter, it is important to make sure you are using it correctly and safely: if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'electronicshacks_com-leader-2','ezslot_3',113,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-electronicshacks_com-leader-2-0'); First, make sure that the multimeter is powered off and disconnected from any circuits. Film vs. So bring the gadget close to your power meter. Digital Multimeter. A power cut can result in the meter going into Credit Mode, which means that there is no power flowing through it. This article was prepared for you by Waleed Rishmawi, one of our Master Authors and currently working in the Bethlehem area of Palestine repairing electrical and electronic equipment. The fuse box can be dangerous. Check to see if the gadget is nearby sufficient for the electric meter. How do I fix my multimeter, which doesn't seem able to measure resistance? What Is The 25 Amp Breaker Wire Size? For specific problems, consult the troubleshooting page. The screen was not broken on the outside which is a good sign. Attempting a DIY fix could potentially cause further damage and even be dangerous. When you switch vendors, IHD may cease operating. Electric smart meters are connected to the power grid. Finally, recheck the readings with the known values to ensure accuracy. Then, touch one lead to each end of the fuse and check the reading. It depends on the type of multimeter and its settings. Thick walls might also interfere with the connection. Your email address will not be published. 3 comments. You should make your prediction based on a circuit diagram. Answer Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. In any case, you may need to contact your local electricity distributor for technical assistance. When your multimeter expose to moisture,sunlight or aged. Probably he's wrong, I'll change the answer. Water content can conduct electricity, which puts you at risk for electrocution if you are around it while using a multimeter. If the reading is anything other than your predicted value, you know that this part of the circuit is being affected by the electrical fault. If your multimeter is not displaying measurements in the correct units, you can set the multimeter to a different range by repeatedly pressing the "RANGE" button. Rationale for sending manned mission to another star? How I remove lcd display and clean it, Answer email id > mnsh2203@rediffmail.com. Electric meters are complex and their screens may malfunction for various reasons. So, you have to open the casing again and replace your fuse. The multimeter looks as good as new. Before troubleshooting any issues with your multimeter, its important to make sure that it is properly calibrated. In this section, we will discuss how to use a multimeter for different applications safely. All information is based on CEC Knowledge and not the NEC. Alternatively, the ball bearings under the dial may need to be replaced. reading . Once you put the multimeter in continuity mode, take these two probes and connect them together. The device should be turned back on and resynced. The meter will read one of three things, 0.00, 1, or the actual resistor value. Multimeter Reading Keeps Jumping: What to Do? if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[336,280],'electronicshacks_com-leader-1','ezslot_13',111,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-electronicshacks_com-leader-1-0');In some cases, the issue could merely be a faulty set of probe leads. Multimeter vs. Oscilloscope: Main Differences. Do not use your test leads if the protective insulation on the leads or probes is fractured or damaged. Then reattach it all while holding the button and waiting for it to reconnect. Read the instruction manual before using. Your email address will not be published. Citing my unpublished master's thesis in the article that builds on top of it. If this happens, examine the trip switches inside the fuse box. I actually have a old meter like that. In this case, it may be necessary to seek professional help or purchase a new multimeter. It may be the case that there is no power on your end, or that the meter is on HAN but has no display. Take the black probe and touch the wide flat prong. However unless you have yanked on the cables and they have pulled out of the connectors they should be okay. In this movie I see a strange cable for terminal connection, what kind of connection is this? There are a few reasons why your power meter would have a blank display however the most common cause is a power failure from the utility. Advantech's WISE-750 vibration PHM gateway is developed to perform predictive maintenance. P.S- Do you know of any your friends who would benefit from this content that you are reading now? If yours doesn't, that's okay! He brought it to my shop the next day for check up and when I turned it on, well, you can see the fault in the photo. How to join two one dimension lists as columns in a matrix. Rationale for sending manned mission to another star? [Troubleshooting Solutions], Denon Avr-s540bt Problems & Possible Solutions, Lutron Hi-Lume 3D Ballast Troubleshooting [Lets Fix Those]. If you plan on doing work that will require a DMM, then get a better one. Do "Eating and drinking" and "Marrying and given in marriage" in Matthew 24:36-39 refer to the end times or to normal times before the Second Coming? Did you make this project? Follow the steps below: The IHD requires a charged battery. -->, A Multi Meter With The Issue Of Bad Display Repaired. Make sure to dispose of the old one properly to avoid any safety hazards; Remember, always prioritize safety when using and troubleshooting a multimeter. Yes, analog multimeters typically require batteries in order to work properly. If your multimeter becomes damaged due to overload, it may display incorrect readings or not work at all. Please consult in your local licensed tradesperson. But dont panic- there are several steps you can take to troubleshoot and solve the issue.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'electronicshacks_com-medrectangle-3','ezslot_10',106,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-electronicshacks_com-medrectangle-3-0'); If your multimeter isnt working, dont worry! Turn power to circuit OFF. It could also be due to incorrect usage of the multimeter such as measuring at an improper range or setting incorrect measurement functions. DOs: However you don't have to worry, you can repair it without paying any money. But how do you use a multimeter? Learn about True-RMS, accuracy, precision as well as resolution and range. These are some common tools used to work on this device. Inspect the device for any physical damage and try testing in different locations. The readout on the screen will instantly read "1", which means that there isn't any continuity. This instrument plays a key role in finding the issues that occurred in the circuits so that we can easily troubleshoot the issues. Learn more about: Privacy Policy. Now for the red probe, you can use it in these two places. Don't spend too long trying to fix your DT830B after checking the fuse. What are philosophical arguments for the position that Intelligent Design is nothing but "Creationism in disguise"? If the problem persists, try recalibrating the multimeter or replacing any damaged probes. Sometimes the electric meter might stop working after a power cut. Second thing is, your fuse might have blown out. Thanks for contributing an answer to Electrical Engineering Stack Exchange! 5 years ago. Sometimes, faulty meters are to blame. http://www.caltek.com.hk/cm1200.htm. You must make sure that it is plugged into a power strip or into an electrical outlet. If the display doesn't turn back on, try plugging it into a different electrical outlet. The electrical energy contained in many circuits can be enough to injure or kill. Its construction is really very ordinary. So, to do that, put your multimeter in continuity mode. Is there needle probe leads that will fit this multimeter? If these steps do not solve the issue, it could be a problem with the internal components of your multimeter. 3 I've got a Caltek CM1200 multimeter, which I bought ages ago. Its easy even for an experienced technician to put the meter on the wrong scale and burn up a meter. The failure could likely be a reparable fuse. Keep in mind that multimeters can sometimes break or give inaccurate readings. Your email is safe with us, we dont spam. Another way to check is by visually inspecting the fuse and seeing if it appears to be damaged or broken. If your multimeter has a beep function, it is usually activated by pressing a button labeled beep or sound. Multimeters are a super handy piece of electrical test equipment and as the name suggests, they can measure a variety of parameters such as voltage, resistance, current, and many more. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Another possibility is that the multimeter may not be properly calibrated. on Introduction, Answer It is important to always follow safety precautions when troubleshooting and repairing a multimeter, as they deal with electrical currents. Consult the manufacturers guidelines for proper calibration procedures; In cases where the multimeter is beyond repair, it may be necessary to replace it entirely with a new device. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. When I move the dial to the resistance measuring area, the display shows nothing. Schedule a demo for our 2D installed electrical troubleshooting simulations or our 3D cloud-based electrical troubleshooting simulations. And I'm planning a continuous series tutorial to teach you how to use this multimeter to measure voltage, to measure current, to measure resistor, and whatnot? Enabling a user to revert a hacked change in their email, Citing my unpublished master's thesis in the article that builds on top of it. Imoudu: I would open it and clean it, maybe bad or cold soldering joints..I would find where the resistance connector on the inside of the dial and then trace it and see if there are bad or dirty connections there. Many of us have run into this issue at some point in time. Find out how Fluke meters are tested in extreme conditions to ensure they are rugged and can handle even . Best Ways to Find Magnets for DIY Projects at Home, https://www.facebook.com/easyandworkproject. Do the following to troubleshoot the electric meter: Checking Whether The Screen is Close Enough to The Meter: IHDs must be located within a few yards of your power meter in order to connect effectively. You should also know where the gas lines are buried. There are two things that you have to check one if your display is working, it means your multimeter is powered. What do the characters on this CCTV lens mean? The continuity will have a resistance of .8 ohms or less. or call I request you all to see the following link for // Special handling for facebook iOS since it cannot open new windows Keep it plugged in: Your IHD runs on batteries, and if you let the batteries die, there's a very small chance the screen will have trouble reconnecting once you . For the past few Troubleshooting Thursday posts, we have been discussing TPCs systematic troubleshooting methodology to build a solid foundation for learning troubleshooting. How to Test. I don't know if your meter is like this, but it's something to check. We will also provide tips on how to prevent these problems from happening in the first place. If the error does not resolve itself, you can try contacting the electrical municipality. Measuring internal resistance of ammeter with ohmmeter. If the meter screen is broken, damaged, or not working correctly, the consumer should notify the authority. My problem was exactly like in this video, Images of then. The most common cause of a blown meter fuse is using a multimeter with an input that exceeds its maximum range. Be sure to check these as well before replacing the device. Advice will be provided at no cost. Next, locate the calibration screw and adjust it until the display reads correctly when measuring a known voltage or resistance. Why are radicals so intolerant of slight deviations in doctrine? Finally I got to the pins where the screen sits. You should always test the meter before using it to troubleshoot. Follow the steps to reset your smart meter. Great fix - I was just about to bin my meter when I googled this. document.getElementById("af-body-413914580").className = "af-body inline af-quirksMode"; Step1: Check the Battery. This is helpful if, for instance, you are building a circuit and connecting wires or soldering; the beep indicates everything is connected and nothing has come loose. What are all the times Gandalf was either late or early? First, turn the dial to the measurement you want to test: AC voltage, DC voltage or resistance. Be sure to disconnect from any power source before making adjustments or replacements. Not all multimeters have a dedicated continuity mode. The IDH might continue to show only one reading or otherwise not display readings or error messages. It can also have a fault. You need to open the case as the manual says. Today, we will discuss the tools used to identify where a malfunction is occurring in a circuit. Who is responsible for gas meter repairs. If rebooting the equipment doesnt quite resolve the issue, the gadget has been damaged. Completely blank (I expect something meaning infinite). } The smart meter software can ping all the meters on the circuit to confirm power restoration. What one-octave set of notes is most comfortable for an SATB choir to sing in unison/octaves? Be sure to check and make sure the batteries are fresh and properly connected, or that the power cable is securely plugged in and functioning properly. Then, wait for another 24 hours until the display updates. Thanks for sharing. 7 years ago. Turn the primary breaker off and on twice to reset it. } How appropriate is it to post a tweet saying that I am looking for postdoc positions?

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